Hireko Forum

dkvamme@msn.com · Joined: Jun 6, 2007 Messages: 7 Offline

Are the new prohet tour heads deemed conforming for competition per the new rules regarding the groves?

Jeff Summitt · Joined: Jan 13, 2006 Messages: 2541 Offline

If there is going to one topic next year that is going to get rid of what little hair I have left, it will be the very stringent groove rule. The Prophet Tour's, at least the current ones, will not conform to the new 2010 groove rule. It was a model that was designed long before and will conform to the current rule as it is a 2009 release and designed with the same grooves as all the other irons that have conformed previously.

Jeff Summitt

GaryJ · Joined: Feb 3, 2006 Messages: 100 Offline

Jeff: I will add my 2 cents worth. I know this groove issue has been publicized for the past year, but it just seems odd that with state of the economy and the golf industry being in the tank that golfers would need to worry about the grooves. There are more important issues than grooves. IMHO

jdhutch2972@yahoo.com · Joined: May 19, 2009 Messages: 4 Offline

Gary,

From what I understand, the rull applies to just the high lofted clubs and only applies to Pro/USGA Tourney play. I think anything from 3-pw is still conforming...
Here is the rule explained in layman's terms and place to get more information.

Jeff,

I know you know this but some of your

The USGA has created a new rule to limit the backspin performance of grooves on lofted clubs. The rule downsizes groove volume and limits edge sharpness for all grooves manufactured after January 1, 2010 so they're equal to or less than the previously approved V-groove dimensions. PGA Tour players must use wedges conforming to the rule beginning 1/1/10. The ruling will decrease backspin and increase stopping distances pros typically achieve from grassy lies, and place more of a premium on hitting fairways.

How does the new rule affect you? If you're an amateur who wants more backspin, you realize the grooves you play determine the third factor in your backspin equation and the stopping distances you achieve on greens. In this regard the USGA has been lenient. The rule gives amateurs (who don't play in Major/USGA events) a choice of which grooves to play until at least 2024. If you want to maximize your short-game backspin, you can legally play with box or U-groove wedges (manufactured prior to 1/1/10) until 2024, or maybe forever. On the other hand, if you play with any wedge manufactured after 1/1/10 (like the pros will be doing), it must have grooves with spin performance at or below V-groove levels. This will limit you to mediocre spin performance. The USGA leaves this groove choice up to you.

Read more: http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction/article/0,28136,1882086,00.html#ixzz0cJec56PI

jdhutch2972@yahoo.com · Joined: May 19, 2009 Messages: 4 Offline

Gary,

Actually, the Groove Rule applies to lofts of 25 deg. or better. So, I guess most of the prophet clubs would be non-conforming but only for Pro/USGA Tourney play.

ialwaysgolf2@gmail.com · Joined: Dec 22, 2008 Messages: 19 Offline

I hope this helps

Keep in mind that the rule is only in effect on the world's professional tours until 2014. At that time, it becomes a rule for the elite amateur competitions like the US Am, British AM, NCAA, etc and so on. Supposedly for even state or county level competitions, it is not to go into effect until 2020 at the earliest.

But the confusing side of all this is the fact that because the USGA did this on the basis of allowing tournament officials to adopt the new rule as a "condition of competition", there are a handful of lower/lesser tournaments who for whatever dumb reason, have adopted the new rule for 2010. Not many, be we have heard of a number of local tournaments around the US and the world where the tournament official(s) have decided to adopt it.

So what would happen? For the players who compete in tournaments for which the new lines are a condition of competition, these players would be axed, not allowed to play. For the rest of us? Well nothing will happen until 2020 at the earliest so in short, right now this doesn't mean anything.

On the other hand, a little revolution now and then is good for cleaning out the old guard and breathing in a little new life. Problem is that even though there is a fairly significant number of golfers who think the USGA has their heads up their back side these days, there are more who still look at the USGA as sacrosanct, never to be defied or challenged. Revolutions only work when the majority of the people share a common feeling of being stepped on and they then band together under one banner. Unfortunately that has very little chance of happening with golfers and the USGA.

So on the other hand, could change come from within the USGA as new people with more open minds and more common sense are elected to the Exec CMte? Possible but unlikely because the Exec Cmte elects their successors. So the hawk, right wing, ultra conservative, narrow minded elite beget more hawk, right wing, ultra conservative narrow minded elite and nothing changes for the better.

Taken from a Tom Wishon comment on grooves and the new rule

GaryJ · Joined: Feb 3, 2006 Messages: 100 Offline

Yes, I understand how this rule applies. My point was that looking at the really, really big picture (economic state of the golf industry), the issue of how to engineer the grooves on a club face (no matter what the loft is) is counter-productive to making the golf industry more profitable and healthy. Furthermore, it was the large OEM's that first brought up the issue of grooves back in the mid 1980's just so they could sell more golf clubs. And yes, it is fine for an OEM to spend thousands of dollars to re-tool so that THEY would conform. But now, everybody and his brother (including Hireko) have to decide whether it is worth it to conform to a rule that was put in place that affects about 1/2 of 1% of ALL golfers. To most people (serious golfers or casual golfers), there are a lot more serious problems than the grooves on a golf club. Time would have been better spent looking at slow play (which is one major factor why people stop playing golf).

mc51299@gmail.com · Joined: Aug 2, 2006 Messages: 1 Offline

The groove issue is important. Clubs introduced before 1/1/2010 AND purchased before 1/1/2011 can be used until 2014 in all but the pro tour and the US Open and US Amateur. After that, it's hit or miss depending on the rules committee. However, clubs introduced after 1/1/2010 OR bought after 1/1/2011 cannot be used at all ever, if you are playing under USGA rules, unless the grooves are conforming. Who wants to buy clubs that may only be usable even in their local club events for less than four years???????? Will the prophet grooves be reworked?

Jeff Summitt · Joined: Jan 13, 2006 Messages: 2541 Offline

The Prophet Tours were introduced before 1/1/2010 and will not be re-worked. If we did, we would also have to change the engraving, which will require additional tooling costs to distinguish from the original model.

Jeff Summitt