The Personal Interview

Before you build any bridge, skyscraper or even a custom-made golf club, you first have to know what specifications you are building it to. This is perhaps no different than making a pie by following the right recipe. If you add the wrong ingredients or not add enough of one thing and too much of something else, your pie is not going to turn out well no matter how much love and affection you poured into your work. Clubmaking is the same way, but you have to write the recipe first. In some cases, it might take a little experimenting to get it just right.  

Another way to think about club fitting is the reason why you may go to see a doctor.  Unless it was a routine check-up, obviously there is something wrong otherwise you wouldn’t be there. The doctor will first talk about your problems and then conduct a few checks (possibly more if your problems are severe). Then advise what you should do before writing a prescription.

The personal interview is where it all begins in any club fitting.  A good club fitter will listen and instinctively start writing the recipe or the prescription in their head.  Before we get started and dive in, there is some advice I would like to give to you based on years of personal experience as well as conversations I have had with other veteran club fitters so you do not make the same mistakes.

If you bought this book with intentions of fitting others besides yourself there is a good chances you will be in contact with a wide array of people; some of which will be perfect strangers.  There are a lot of good hands-on clubmakers I have come to know and not all have the people skills to work with the public.  That is something you want to think of if you will be conducting your club fitting more as a profession rather than a casual hobby.

Be a professional

Even though your club fitting may be for pleasure and not as a full-fledged business you first want to make a good impression on any potential customer before you can earn their trust.  Working with flip-flops, your shirt tail hanging out and ketchup dripping from your cheek is going to put you at an immediate disadvantage no matter how experienced you may have. 

Remember the golfer came to you for a reason. The reasons can vary greatly, such as your solid reputation or your convenient location, or that you and he are friends or that person was recommended by a former customer, it really doesn’t matter. The fact that the player is in your shop, studio, out on the range, etc. provides you with a captive audience toward which you are able to dispense your expertise and in the end, help your customer play better golf. 

While you are talking to the player, make sure you speak confidently, use good posture and answer any questions he or she may pose as fully as possible.  If you don’t know the answer to their question, simply tell them you don’t know but will find out an answer later.  As you and your customer walk around your shop you should be able to provide knowledge about certain components you may have on display. You may want to show some of your “tools of the trade” you have at your disposal such as a frequency analyzer, a lie/loft machine or perhaps a launch monitor. 

All of these will enhance your image in your customer’s eyes - the more he or she thinks you know the more confidence your customer will have in your ability to fit them correctly. When the customer leaves your shop, they will think (and hopefully tells their playing companions), “Gee, this club fitter really knows their stuff!”

Don’t talk over the customer’s head

Don’t just read about a product you are trying to sell either.  Understand how it works and by all means try it first-hand. Explain that technology clearly to your customers.  Don’t try to bamboozle the customer to show them how much you know.  If anything, help to educate them. You can be knowledgeable without the BS as your customer will likely see right through that anyway. 

Believe me, they don’t want to be bombarded with unfamiliar or complicated terms – keep the super technical terminology to a minimum at best. Suggestions for some of those terms are shown below.  After all, the customer only cares that the product or service you are providing will work and help them accomplish their goal.  At first, you may want to practice your speech to family members or friends.

Always be positive

Whether it is in a ball-hitting situation when a player hits a shot poorly or whether you are offering your opinion on a certain product that you do not like, be certain to put a positive “spin” on your comments. For example, if the player mentions a rival fitter in your area, do not say things to disparage them.  Often times when you bad mouth your competition, it comes back to haunt you later on.  Instead offer comments such as, “Their philosophy differs from ours” or “I prefer our philosophy or do things this way because...” 

Be flexible with your time

Club fitting is considered a service business. If most of the golfers in your area work the 8:00 to 5:00 shift, schedule a fitting after his or her working hours. It might be a wise idea to establish evening hours at least once a week, if not more, depending on the location of the shop. Weekend hours will offer golfers a chance to stop by at their leisure, before or after a round.

Scheduling fittings may be helpful as well, especially for those with very busy schedules. Fitting players at the time they normally play is a good idea as well. For example, many retired golfers play early in the morning. Why not fit them at that time rather than later in the day? Their bodies will be more “in tune” with the way they will play if you fit them at that same time.

Use a soft sell

It is important to let your knowledge, demo clubs and fitting session be your selling tools. Never try to fit a player with a club he or she doesn’t like. Show the player a wide range of options, discussing the pros and cons of each head, shaft, and grip or fitting parameter. The player is an integral part of the fitting; feedback from him or her is the key to an accurate fitting.

The use of statements such as, “Have you seen the latest..., Are you familiar with..., Let me show you...” will help you gain the trust and confidence of the player. The fitter should sell their self and their abilities and the clubs will sell themselves.

Back up your products and services

As a club fitter, you want to stand behind your work so some type of warranty should be offered. Will it be 30 days, 60 days, a year or even a lifetime? In all reality, it is up to the fitter. Think about this, if the clubs are properly matched to the player, there should be no reason for problems. If you offer a follow-up evaluation after a month or so, any problems should be resolved at that time. 

Nearly all reputable component suppliers will replace defective heads or shafts if they break during the normal course of play for a reasonable period of time. Thus, in the case of breakage, liability is effectively removed from the club fitter.  If there are one drawback to replacing a club or component more than a couple of years old, it is that the exact product may be out of production. Golf club product life cycles are closer to two to three years than to ten...beware of this when offering exact replacements or fill-ins to a player.

Build a rapport with your customer

Before you get firmly entrenched into a club fitting, it is important to learn a bit about the player long before being heading to the range or to the swing area. Initially you want find out a bit about the golfer’s game, equipment knowledge, club preferences and fitting goals as this will help make the fitting situation beneficial to both you and the player, not to mention breaking the ice.  Be yourself and speak in a casual manner to put your customer at ease.

Develop a list of questions

You will want to develop a series questions to ask your customer as their responses will be crucial when working toward your goal of providing the best-fit set of clubs for your customer. A list of possible questions that you might want to ask is provided shortly, but don’t limit yourself to those questions only. Use the questions only as a guide for starting a conversation or for determining information related to the player’s game. And by no means memorize the questions or rely too much on a specific order or format.  

When the player asks questions, answer them. If the player wants to discuss an equipment topic not on your list of “interview” questions, by all means do so. Don’t compromise the conversation by saying “I’ll get to that question later”. You can jot down the answers on your clipboard as they are answered. Not allowing questions to be asked or by changing the subject away from what the player is questioning does not allow the smooth interaction between the fitter and the customer.

Ask open-ended questions

Whenever possible ask open-ended questions or ones that cannot be answered by a simple “yes” or “no.” By asking open-ended questions this gives the player the chance to speak. Plus the fitter will learn much more about the player by asking these types of questions as compared to questions that can simply be answered in a single word. Questions such as, “Can you describe your typical ball flight with your current driver” is a better one to ask as compared to “Do you usually hit the ball straight?”

Other questions may include, “How do you expect your new clubs to improve your game?” “What clubs currently on the market have you hit tested? Which did you hit best? Why?” The more you are able to get the player to talk about his or her game, the more knowledge you will gain that may be helpful during the fitting session itself.

PERSONAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS

Do You Play Golf Right Handed?

What is the most important club fitting question? It might not be what you think. Even veteran custom club fitters will fail to ask this very important question at the right time – if at all.  

Several years ago I was speaking with a potential customer about what head, shaft, length, etc. he should use.  He had a long list of components he was inquiring about and I had an equally long list of questions I had for him to see what might be the most compatible components for his game.  The conversation was going well as we had just about pinpointed what components he should have.  All of the sudden after 15 minutes into the conversation, he says “Oh yeah, did I tell you I am left handed?”  Well, I think you know the answer to that question – of course not.  To make matters worse, the particular head I had touted was one of the few we did not offer in left hand, so we had to backtrack to another model.

In another situation, I was visiting my local golf pro shop. The proprietor, who is a very good friend and extremely competent club fitter, was telling me a story about one of his customers.  This customer came in requesting a partial set of name brand irons with custom lies to match an older set he had before.  Of course he did not bring his clubs with him rather he knew that he was standard length and what color code was on the iron for the lie angle.   About two weeks later, he calls the customer to tell him that his clubs came in.  When the customer came to pick of his clubs, he thanked the owner for getting the clubs so quickly but said “There’s one little problem here, I can’t hit these clubs”.  Befuddled, the proprietor asked why. The customer responded “I’m left handed.”  The club fitter had to eat that set of clubs since they were custom made and could not be returned to stock.

The moral of the story it to ask what handedness the player is from the start to avoid embarrassment or to take a bite out of your wallet.  Don’t just ask the golfer if they are right or left handed, make sure to ask them if they play or swing the club the same way too.  Remember Phil Mickelson is a natural right-hander playing left-handed.

Sex

You will want to make sure to put this information on your fitting form although this is one of the unasked questions as it will be obvious when the customer is in front of you. Sample forms are shown at the end of the article. This information may be helpful for future use as there are several names that can be used by a man or women.  Let’s say you need to contact the person and it happened to busy day when you did the fitting and you want to tell that customer their clubs are ready to pick up.  You can avoid embarrassment if the person doesn’t answer the phone and leave a message to have “her” give you a call when Kim happens to be a man. 

What are Your Height, Weight and Age?

These questions are normal on most fitting forms, but some of these are personal that may or may not be pertinent to fitting.  Height is the obvious one, because that is going to help with selecting length later on.  Whenever I fitted women, I was always uncomfortable asking their age – or even trying to guess, so that is up to you if you want to ask that question.  In reality, that has little to offer when it comes to fitting recommendation as we shall see later in the text.

Weight is another question that can be quite personal, but in some cases this may be of value in recommending fitting variables.  Without putting down a specific amount you could always use descriptive terms like average, thin, stocky, very large, etc. to describe their build for future reference.  Several years ago I was helping a customer fit one of his customers over the phone.  The customer kept complaining that his clubs were too short even though the length was a little longer than someone of his height.  Only did I come to find out later that the customer weighed over 500 pounds.  Once I heard that, immediately it made sense why he could not get down to the ball and an appropriate length was suggested.

Have you ever been custom fit before?  

One thing I try not to do is re-invent the wheel.  If the player has gone through a fitting (especially recently), they may have a piece of paper with a list of specifications in their possession.  There might be some important information that you can take from it even though you had not done the fitting yourself.  Plus you can find out what the player gained in experience and if the fitting helped improve their game.  This question can be asked at any time during the personal interview portion and may very well be a question you ask at the initial stages when meeting with your customer.

How often do you play?

Knowing the frequency of play can be helpful to know.  Not only does it show the commitment (or lack of) the player might have, if you decide to do a follow up with the customer, you can schedule it appropriately.

But knowing what the customer scores will be important when we talk about the level or how comprehensive the fitting will be between you and your customer. Plus the higher scoring players have more reason to get fit as they are able to see their scores shrink more than a better golfer can.

Where do you play?

Not only do you want to find out what their average score is but where.  If you are fitting the person face-to-face, most likely that golfer is playing a local track.  A low score at your local “Muni” may not be as impressive compared to the local country club.

What is your highest and lowest score?

I would qualify this question for a specific period of time like the past year if the golfer plays infrequently or possibly in the last few months up until the fitting if the frequency of play is high.  Large changes in scoring may give you an insight that the player would benefit more for parameters that will give him or her better control and accuracy or that one particular aspect of their game needs immediate attention.

How often do you play or practice?

Another indication of the player’s commitment to the game as well as improving his or her game is how often they play and/or practice.  Infrequency of play may make it harder to see certain tendencies when you go to look at the player’s swing compared to a player who is in mid-season form.  In cases like that, you may be concentrating strictly on the maximum game-improvement features for the weekend warrior.

Are you taking lessons?

In chapter 6 we will explain that you do not want to mix lessons with a fitting.  Try to explain why to the customer, but if they insist on being fit now make a mental note and tell them that some adjustment can be made, but if wholesale changes are needed, then it may cost additional money to exchange components.

For instance, if the player’s average score is 90 with 40 putters per round, that is not a good ratio and you may want to focus solely on putter fitting.  But if that same 90 shooter averaged 30 putters per round, then you can focus on other elements of their game.

Do you have any physical limitations?

Asking if a player has any physical limitation up front will serve a dual function.  First, ailments such as arthritis or tendonitis may suggest using certain types of components to reduce the shock at impact.  But equally important is not to hand a club to someone that might aggravate their problem or to find out prior to the customer hitting any balls if that player will experience pain or discomfort.

If a physical problem or ailment is something that will get better, then you might re-schedule a fitting later instead of trying to watch the customer’s ball flight on swings that are not indicative of their normal motion.  But if the problem will continue to exist and perhaps worsen over time, then it would be safe to fit the player.  If anything, you might have to spend extra time with the customer because they may require more time between each shot than someone in better physical condition.

What is your current set make up?

Even if the player brought their clubs to the fitting and you were going to conduct a specifications check later, now is a good time to ask what their current club set make up is. If they tell you “I am not sure” or “I think the name begins with a C…” then that will tell how little they know about the equipment they are playing.  However, if the player says “I am playing a set of [fill in the blank] ½” longer-than-standard, 2º upright with Dynamic Gold S300 shaft soft-stepped twice…” then that player is probably going to be pretty knowledgeable.

While they are telling you what they have, you might ask them how well they hit the various club groupings such as their driver, fairways, mid irons, wedges, putter, etc.  Some sort of rating system may help you evaluate where they excel and where their deficiencies lie. 

What are your shot tendencies?

Many players, regardless of their ability, will tell you they hit the ball fairly straight. That’s why it is important to ask the player if he feels that he misses more shots to the right or to the left of their intended target.  You may want to ask this not just about the driver, but also fairway woods, long, mid and short irons as well as the putter too. But, if the player admits to being a “slicer” (as most are), this will help clue the fitter to certain parameters to look for and start narrowing down potential club head and shaft selections.  

Using descriptive terms such as right or left is better than asking the player if they slice or pull the ball.  At this point you should already know they are right or left-handed. In one fitting I conducted, the customer kept saying he was hooking the ball.  When we started hitting balls the customer was confusing the term hook and slice and obviously would affect which set of parameters would help remedy his situation. At that time I began pointing and asking each customer “Do you hit the ball this way or that way or both ways, referring to army golf?”  If you are not familiar with army golf, it is right, left, right, left…

You might ask the player if their approach shots to the green or on their putts typically land short or past their target.  We will see how these answers will be influenced by certain parameters later.  It won’t hurt to ask them as well if they feel they hit the ball too high, too low, or about the same as people they play with.  Often times I hear customers say they hit the ball too high, but in reality it might be right or even on the low side.

If you are fitting the player by phone, on-line or in the case the player is physically unable to swing the club, all your fitting suggestions will be based on these answers. We show a diagram that explains the different flight patterns.  Later in the text, we will explain in greater detail how each of those ball flights is possible and how to remedy them.   

The chart on the personal interview form is based on right handed golfers because of the limit of space.  You may want to expand it so that it covers the right terminology when you happen to be fitting a left handed golfer.

What is your favorite (and least favorite) club?

Most golfers have a “go-to” club in their bag. By asking which club it is, this could serve as your starting point when you go to start measuring the equipment in our next step. Not only is it important to ask which is the best, you also may want to ask which one is the worst. If the player has a hodgepodge of clubs in their bag, which can be quite common, pay extra attention to that club if one of those is the favorite or least favorite.  Remember my philosophy of not re-inventing the wheel as that club may have many of the answers you are looking for.

What preference do you have?

It will be important to ask the customer if they have any certain preferences or not.  For instance, do they like the appearance of a geometric-shaped clubhead or do they fall into the camp that prefers only a traditional pear shape? Your customer’s only request may be that the club head or shaft be pink, they are looking for something lighter than what they have or requesting a thinner top line and not a whole lot of offset.  These preferences will help narrow down the possible choices you can offer to them.

Preferences are to serve as a suggestion.  If that golfer has a tendency to fade or slice the ball, you may find during the dynamic fitting that offset decidedly helped that golfer hit the ball straighter versus the reduced offset he initially wanted.  At that point you can concentrate on an offset club with a thinner top line to provide that customer with part of their preference.

What are the goals with a new set (or club)?

If you ask this question, the obvious answer for each golfer will be to hit the ball longer and straighter and to reduce their score.  But there are times when a player may give you an honest answer as to what the biggest problem is with their game. For example, that golfer may say “I would love to be able to hit the ball out of the sand and have it stay on the green just once”. Now you concentrate on their biggest problem first as this will have the greatest impact on lowering their score.

Again, these serve as sample questions.  You may care to add some more to your arsenal,  but keep in the back of your mind how long it will take to ask all of these questions.  I have seen questionnaires where the customer is asked 50 or more questions, which for many will be way too many. Ask only pertinent questions that will help you fit your customer. You and your customer’s time will be valuable and you still have several other parts of the fitting to complete.  While too little information can make fitting golf clubs more challenging, asking the right questions can save you time in the long run and the reason why the personal interview is one of the most vital parts of the fitting procedure.

STATIC FITTING

Static fitting is an important step for the clubmaker.  It involves taking a few detailed measurements to be able to start fitting the customer’s clubs.  In what amounts to only a few minutes of conversation and/or measuring, you can gain a wealth of knowledge. As we have mentioned before, due to special circumstances, not every fitting you do will you be able to see a player in person.   Again the player may be a long distance customer you are attempting to fit via the phone or internet or even a spouse trying to buy a surprise gift for their loved one.

How far do you hit the golf ball?

One question most male golfers are begging that you will ask is how far they hit the ball.  Often times what the customer says and what they do are two entirely different things.  If you are fitting the player in person, you might even skip this question if you would rather rely on your swing speed measurement device to provide you with accurate information.

Years ago I was speaking with an elderly individual on the phone trying to help him find a suitable range of shafts to choose from for a new driver. Early on in the conversation, his average distance (according to him) was close to 250 yards, which was obviously very good by the sound of his voice.  Further on in the conversation he was telling me his 5-iron distance was closer to 150 yards.  At that moment I told him that I wouldn’t be thinking about getting a new driver, rather getting a new set of irons.  He was curious to why I would say that. So I went on to explain there is a certain proportionality you will hit each club in your bag based upon the typical lengths and lofts.

A 5-iron should go at least two-thirds of the distance of the driver.  His 250 yard drives should equate to closer to 170 yards or more on a 5-iron.  After a pause, he eventually went on to say that he may not hit the ball quite that far and maybe it was closer to 210 yards.  Now, that is more like it.  Two-thirds of 210 yards is closer to 150 yards and now I could make a more reasonable suggestion based on fact rather than a simple embellishment.

This is why I say that, “Accurate fitting requires accurate data”. If we look at the following chart you will see a plot of average driver distance and mph.  These are not made up, rather based on data obtained over the years.

If you don’t believe me the average swing speed on the PGA Tour has been roughly 113.5 mph for several years.  If you take a look at the average driving distance of the median player for 2012 it was 289.5 yards. You can find this information on the PGA Tour’s website and a great resource of information, plus you can track it year by year. 

If you divide the distance by the speed, you get a ratio of 2.55.  This is a good number to remember because this shows the upper end of the driver distance potential based on a player’s swing speed.  After all, these are the best players in the world and they make solid contact.  I also use average because it takes in account a lot of factors such as wind, terrain, etc. A single shot might not be indicative of what usually occurs, but sadly it is often what most (male) golfers will remember and that’s their one tape measured drive.  Plus the slower the swing speed, the more that ratio drops.

Ask a follow up, ask how far that player carries their #6-iron and record that data.  The approximate speed can be calculated as well which will serve to help select shaft flex when we get to that point in the fitting.  If a player is unsure, then it is best to rely on your measurement tools.

EQUIPMENT EVALUATION

In my opinion another important step in club fitting is in the equipment evaluation process.  This is the time you may want to spot check a particular club, their favorite and least favorite club or possibly do a complete analysis on the whole set.  It will be up to your discretion as how much of your and your customer’s time may be needed.

But many times this step is not even part of the fitting process and instead the club fitter goes directly to the equipment evaluation process and relies solely on their demo clubs to provide the answers.  In other cases the customer is new and doesn’t have clubs or did not bring them with them to the fitting.  Lastly, you may be fitting a customer by phone or on-line that it is not possible to have the clubs there in front of you to measure.

As I mentioned in the introduction, there are many ways of conducting a fitting.  Plus some shops are not set up with all the necessary measurement tools to accurately measure many of the specifications. Here is a list of some of the basic parameters that you could measure or take notes on.

There are actually a few more parameters, but these are the key ones to look for.  We will go over each of these individually later in the text to show how they will influence ball flight. But if you are asking if you need to record data for each and every club in the set, the answer to this is no unless you are charging the player for a full bag analysis.

Often times a player may be looking for a single club like a driver, hybrid, wedge or putter to replace one that is ill-suited to their current game.  In other cases, the player may want a new set of wedges, set of irons or even a brand new custom made set.  By listening to the player you can focus on certain parameters and work on the others if that does not provide the information you were trying to obtain.

If you get a better player in your shop that is complaining that their current set of irons does not produce consistent distances, you may want to test all the clubs and record that information on a specification sheet so you have that for your records.  By simply measuring the loft (and lies while you are at it), you may find one or two clubs in the set that are out of kilter.  Those might easily be adjusted while the customer it standing there.  Remember, conducting simple alterations is one form of fitting.  For a brand new golfer, this step will not be necessary and allow extra time to work with the customer hitting your demo clubs.

Again by listening to the player’s responses during the personal interview session and combining them with the static measurements and the specifications measurements in the equipment evaluation (however brief it might require), the fitter should begin to correlate what characteristics would complement the player’s swing tendencies to equipment to create a successful fit.